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	<title>Comments on: Where are the Pitchforks?</title>
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	<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/</link>
	<description>It's our turn, motherfucker.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:39:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: 4jkb4ia</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-718</link>
		<dc:creator>4jkb4ia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 02:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-718</guid>
		<description>In the accepted political map, it is not that there are no populists in the Democratic Party. It is that these populists are not &lt;i&gt;liberals&lt;/i&gt;. The quick negative image of a populist which I have is Dick Gephardt, about whom my mom said, &quot;He never was a liberal in his life&quot;. Fortunately he retired before my parents had to vote for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the accepted political map, it is not that there are no populists in the Democratic Party. It is that these populists are not <i>liberals</i>. The quick negative image of a populist which I have is Dick Gephardt, about whom my mom said, &#8220;He never was a liberal in his life&#8221;. Fortunately he retired before my parents had to vote for him.</p>
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		<title>By: 4jkb4ia</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator>4jkb4ia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 02:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-717</guid>
		<description>Thank you very much for the bibliography. I have just read this post on Open Left and was hoping that Paul or someone would provide a list of books about populism which were not Hofstadter. I saw The Populist Persuasion in the notes for Freedom From Fear and am glad to see it namechecked here as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much for the bibliography. I have just read this post on Open Left and was hoping that Paul or someone would provide a list of books about populism which were not Hofstadter. I saw The Populist Persuasion in the notes for Freedom From Fear and am glad to see it namechecked here as well.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-714</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 07:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-714</guid>
		<description>CENSOR THIS: The person censored specializes in inane, stupid, offensive personal attacks on individuals. He rarely makes these attacks here and can be quite interesting, but at some point his attacks on another thread became too disgusting to ignore.

Senecal, we should just realize that the Democrats are Ivy Tweeds who take money for delivering votes and go from there, and are &lt;i&gt;in no way &quot;us&quot;.&lt;/i&gt; They&#039;re &quot;them&quot;. So what should we do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CENSOR THIS: The person censored specializes in inane, stupid, offensive personal attacks on individuals. He rarely makes these attacks here and can be quite interesting, but at some point his attacks on another thread became too disgusting to ignore.</p>
<p>Senecal, we should just realize that the Democrats are Ivy Tweeds who take money for delivering votes and go from there, and are <i>in no way &#8220;us&#8221;.</i> They&#8217;re &#8220;them&#8221;. So what should we do?</p>
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		<title>By: senecal</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-713</link>
		<dc:creator>senecal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 00:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-713</guid>
		<description>I like what Julian Elson says.  why not all those things?  Of course the problem is how to disseminate the ideas, how to build support, organizations, action plans?  I&#039;m not sure, in this long splendid post, whether JE ever suggests that populist pressures succeeds by influencing one of the two parties, or whether it has to take the form of a third party.  That would be a very complex and sophisticated path, which might be difficult to sell to a popular base.  If, by pitchforks, you&#039;re suggesting full-blown overthrow, then you have to deal with all the tactical challenges that Marxists have haggled over for 100 plus years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like what Julian Elson says.  why not all those things?  Of course the problem is how to disseminate the ideas, how to build support, organizations, action plans?  I&#8217;m not sure, in this long splendid post, whether JE ever suggests that populist pressures succeeds by influencing one of the two parties, or whether it has to take the form of a third party.  That would be a very complex and sophisticated path, which might be difficult to sell to a popular base.  If, by pitchforks, you&#8217;re suggesting full-blown overthrow, then you have to deal with all the tactical challenges that Marxists have haggled over for 100 plus years.</p>
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		<title>By: CENSOR THIS</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-711</link>
		<dc:creator>CENSOR THIS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 13:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-711</guid>
		<description>Why do you censor people&#039;s posts?  Afraid of free speech, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you censor people&#8217;s posts?  Afraid of free speech, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: timh</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-709</link>
		<dc:creator>timh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 01:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-709</guid>
		<description>what other books/sources have informed your views emerson?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what other books/sources have informed your views emerson?</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-707</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-707</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’m not sure whether you view technocratic administrative politics and populism as intrinsically antithetical to each other&lt;/i&gt;

During the New Deal there was a back and forth between the two, but during the war era and after the Democrats cut off the populist-radical wings and went almost entirely technocratic. (Populists are not necessarily idiots, either. After all, in 1870 they were free-traders and monetarists). 

It was really institutional rather than psychological, and it worked until 1968.

The specifics of your post are the kinds of things people should be talking about. What you require confronting finance directly, though; they wouldn&#039;t go quietly. And that could be best done if there were a loud populist movement threatening something even worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’m not sure whether you view technocratic administrative politics and populism as intrinsically antithetical to each other</i></p>
<p>During the New Deal there was a back and forth between the two, but during the war era and after the Democrats cut off the populist-radical wings and went almost entirely technocratic. (Populists are not necessarily idiots, either. After all, in 1870 they were free-traders and monetarists). </p>
<p>It was really institutional rather than psychological, and it worked until 1968.</p>
<p>The specifics of your post are the kinds of things people should be talking about. What you require confronting finance directly, though; they wouldn&#8217;t go quietly. And that could be best done if there were a loud populist movement threatening something even worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Elson</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-706</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Elson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-706</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure whether you view technocratic administrative politics and populism as intrinsically antithetical to each other, or whether you simply think that the administrative technocrats have waged an arbitrary and unnecessary war against populism because of their collective pet peeves and prejudices as a class, even though sometimes populists and administrative technocrats &lt;I&gt;theoretically&lt;/I&gt; could get along alright (if not in a 100% harmonious relationship).

As you know, I&#039;m not exactly a pitchfork populist myself. However, I&#039;m wondering if there might be something that party hacks halfway disillusioned with Obamanomics (like me) and populists (never illusioned about Obamanomics in the first place) could agree on. A basic principle I&#039;d like to see: trickle-up economics.

Where the US has previously insured financial assets via FDIC, FSLIC, PBGC, etc, do what it takes to cover those losses. Other than that -- other than those discrete cases where help was federally promised in advance -- no help for investors or the financial sector.

Money goes directly into the real economy, through aid to the poor, public services, and projects. The financial sector can eventually get some of the benefit of this. If someone has public health coverage, and thus doesn&#039;t have to declare bankruptcy in the midst of being treated for breast cancer, and thus can pay off her debts rather than defaulting, then the financial sector benefits from that, as a secondary consequence of the well-being of its customers.

Or maybe not. Maybe the wealth won&#039;t trickle up any more than it trickles down. Either way, they&#039;re on their own, unless a financier actually becomes poor enough to qualify for assistance by the same criteria as, say, a Wal*Mart greeter.

Okay. Not exactly pitchfork populism -- it&#039;s not about punishing the warlocks of Wall Street so much as cutting them loose and focusing on higher priorities. However, as a principle, I think it could cut across a number of different lines: there&#039;s the populist-lite aspect of repudiating TARP-style bailouts. There&#039;s the free market orthodox aspect of saying that finance should make its money by providing its services to an improved overall economy, rather than dealing directly with the federal government. There&#039;s the mushy administrative liberal aspect of wishing the rich well and not &lt;I&gt;wanting&lt;/I&gt; them to lose their wealth, but thinking the poorer have a stronger claim.

Is &quot;trickle-up economics&quot; a servicable meme for populists, loyalist Democrats who&#039;ve only drunk half a cup of Obama Kool-Aid, and others on the broad non-right-wing of American politics?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure whether you view technocratic administrative politics and populism as intrinsically antithetical to each other, or whether you simply think that the administrative technocrats have waged an arbitrary and unnecessary war against populism because of their collective pet peeves and prejudices as a class, even though sometimes populists and administrative technocrats <i>theoretically</i> could get along alright (if not in a 100% harmonious relationship).</p>
<p>As you know, I&#8217;m not exactly a pitchfork populist myself. However, I&#8217;m wondering if there might be something that party hacks halfway disillusioned with Obamanomics (like me) and populists (never illusioned about Obamanomics in the first place) could agree on. A basic principle I&#8217;d like to see: trickle-up economics.</p>
<p>Where the US has previously insured financial assets via FDIC, FSLIC, PBGC, etc, do what it takes to cover those losses. Other than that &#8212; other than those discrete cases where help was federally promised in advance &#8212; no help for investors or the financial sector.</p>
<p>Money goes directly into the real economy, through aid to the poor, public services, and projects. The financial sector can eventually get some of the benefit of this. If someone has public health coverage, and thus doesn&#8217;t have to declare bankruptcy in the midst of being treated for breast cancer, and thus can pay off her debts rather than defaulting, then the financial sector benefits from that, as a secondary consequence of the well-being of its customers.</p>
<p>Or maybe not. Maybe the wealth won&#8217;t trickle up any more than it trickles down. Either way, they&#8217;re on their own, unless a financier actually becomes poor enough to qualify for assistance by the same criteria as, say, a Wal*Mart greeter.</p>
<p>Okay. Not exactly pitchfork populism &#8212; it&#8217;s not about punishing the warlocks of Wall Street so much as cutting them loose and focusing on higher priorities. However, as a principle, I think it could cut across a number of different lines: there&#8217;s the populist-lite aspect of repudiating TARP-style bailouts. There&#8217;s the free market orthodox aspect of saying that finance should make its money by providing its services to an improved overall economy, rather than dealing directly with the federal government. There&#8217;s the mushy administrative liberal aspect of wishing the rich well and not <i>wanting</i> them to lose their wealth, but thinking the poorer have a stronger claim.</p>
<p>Is &#8220;trickle-up economics&#8221; a servicable meme for populists, loyalist Democrats who&#8217;ve only drunk half a cup of Obama Kool-Aid, and others on the broad non-right-wing of American politics?</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-705</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-705</guid>
		<description>I suppose I should apologize for being so bristly, but it&#039;s depressing to find the Hofstadter interpretation of Populism so deeply entrenched. &quot;Populist&quot; = &quot;Racist&quot;. Q.E.D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose I should apologize for being so bristly, but it&#8217;s depressing to find the Hofstadter interpretation of Populism so deeply entrenched. &#8220;Populist&#8221; = &#8220;Racist&#8221;. Q.E.D.</p>
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		<title>By: politicalfootball</title>
		<link>http://trollblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/where-are-the-pitchforks/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator>politicalfootball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trollblog.wordpress.com/?p=765#comment-704</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Might I ask what your knowledge base is?&lt;/i&gt;

None worth mentioning. I read newspapers. And blogs. And books. I&#039;ve got a bachelor&#039;s degree from a state university, and I haven&#039;t made much of a systematic study of &lt;i&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt; in life.

If you tell me that populism necessarily excludes political actors whose primary motivation and appeal are racist, then I agree that Duke is clearly not a populist. This is responsive to my question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Might I ask what your knowledge base is?</i></p>
<p>None worth mentioning. I read newspapers. And blogs. And books. I&#8217;ve got a bachelor&#8217;s degree from a state university, and I haven&#8217;t made much of a systematic study of <i>anything</i> in life.</p>
<p>If you tell me that populism necessarily excludes political actors whose primary motivation and appeal are racist, then I agree that Duke is clearly not a populist. This is responsive to my question.</p>
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